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Do You Like Logic's Direction ?


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Poll: Do you like the direction Logic is heading since Apple bought it from emagic? (128 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you like the direction Logic is heading since Apple bought it from emagic?

  1. Yes, I have faith after seeing what Apple have done with the other Pro Applications (75 votes [55.97%])

    Percentage of vote: 55.97%

  2. No, I miss emagic (11 votes [8.21%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.21%

  3. Maybe, Lets wait and see what Logic 8 brings (44 votes [32.84%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.84%

  4. Logic got the Axe, I already switched to another DAW. (4 votes [2.99%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.99%

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#1 Peter

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 04:09 PM

finally got the October poll out, sorry it took so long.

Do you like the direction Logic is heading since Apple bought it from emagic?
Please feel free to discuss, im sure some folks will have alot to say.


Peter

Mixing - Logic Pro X | OS X 10.8.4 | 3.4GHZ Quad Core Hackintosh | 16GB Ram |

Studio Tracking - Logic Pro 9.1.8 | OS X 10.6.8 | 2GHZ Quad Mac Pro | 6GB Ram | Apogee Symphony PCI-e | Apogee AD16X | Apogee Mini DAC | Logic Control & Extender and Mackie Control C4 and a boat load of other cool stuff i use in my studio Static Productions


#2 tobyond

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 07:01 PM

Despite the extremely heated climate of people criticizing Logic, L7 works great for me, it does what I bought it for, allow me to compose and record and it's rock solid.

#3 WorleyWorks

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 11:32 AM

I was impressed with Apple's presence at AES - hopefully heralding a great Logic 8. I asked an Apple Rep about being able to preserve automation when you move clips on a track - and he replied that this is a top item being addressed - with this, Logic will work for me.

#4 tommypiper

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 11:57 AM

I think the future for Logic is bright and exciting.

However, I am not satisfied with its current (7.x) audio editing and audio interface issues. I almost voted that I ditched it, because really I have. Serious audio editing is very frustrating (for me) and impossible on Logic 7.x compared to other DAWs. I do not edit audio on Logic because of these shortcomings, and only fly projects in from time to time to try out the soft instruments.

I do think Apple will strongly support Logic's development in positive ways, and I think the Logic team are aware of areas that need improving and it's going get better. So I haven't given up on the future.

cheers,
tommypiper

Edited by tommypiper, 15 October 2005 - 11:58 AM.


#5 tantejo

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 12:25 PM

hello,
i agree with tommy that audio editting should be easier to do, and also
the drawing of waveforms after recording or importing.
i just don't use logic to record my music, or edit it and that's not like it should be, because i really like to mix with logic.
i'm constantly asking myself if i should go back to protools, but in the end i prefer the sound of logic and that's what matters most to me.
greetings, johan.

#6 chmara@gainbroadband.com

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 02:46 PM

With the exception of support policies Logic 7.1.1 has solidly made my Mac my composing and creation station. Audio Editing is problematic and I still use BIAS products for a lot but find their upgrade path over the years has not given me half the power I receive in Logic...at now very similar prices.

#7 smillie54

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 05:27 PM

Hello,

this is my first post... and I'm probably a total newbie compared to most of you guys here, but I've been toying with logic since 4.7 on a PC. Have to say... it ain't the most intuitive piece of software out there, however, it is one of the, if not THE, most powerful DAWs on the market. Therefore, because the tasks it can do themselves are pretty involved, it's always going to be equally as involved to get 'proper' results out of it. I mean, music/ sound is subjective anyway, so what one person likes someone else doesn't, but combine that with how different people have varying work flows makes for exactly what Pro Tools vs Logic is all about. They're completely different animals really, but because they do similar tasks, combined with the aforementioned subjective nature of the whole business... people feel like they have to side with what is seen to be giving the best results.. even though they are capable of both similar and quite different results. And that's just Pro Tools vs Logic!

It is a fair point that the audio editing can be a little 'windowy' in Logic, but the arrange region editing and cursor editing tools is far superior to it's emagic days. As is AppleLoop integration, the customisability of the screensets means that if you set it up to how it works for you, it can be extremely efficient to nip round it.

I personally think that the recent additions of Sculpture and Ultrabeat, as well as bundling pretty much every plugin emagic owned for cheaper than the old 'pro' sequencer version really has driven the rest of the manufacturers to rethink... that and trying to combat those pesky hackers. Mind you, you can understand why people get hacked copies because half the demos in the world are deltas to some extent, or by the time you've figured out what to do with the thing then the time has expired to actually use it such is the mini sequencer/ multi capabilities of some of the up and coming plug ins these days. Plus most of the industry seems to fall in line with siding with a chosen manufacturer making it very political who you go with to the point of risking not getting work. RTAS... mmm... no, I don't think I'm going to write a format for you... but you guys are OK... now that makes sense. Speaking of sense, open source! There are so many free plugins out there these days too... some of them good too! Audio widgets!

Although it pissed quite a few people off ditching PC support, and going from VST to AU and OS9 to OSX, runninga dongle blah blah... running stuff on macs myself these days, I'm definitely convinced. OSX has transformed my 'robustness' experiences of many apps never mind Logic, but that too has been a lot more together than when emagic had it. I think a lot of people forget that. The amount of going under the hood in logic combined with PCs and drivers for this, Audiowerk for that, VST for one... Rex... some are supported some aren't... for new comers it's a lot to take in never mind getting round to making music/ sound design with the damn thing which is the whole point right?

As a result, bring on GarageBand support, and easy setup templates. Yes it could be seen as clever marketing, and sometimes it might take preference over plug-in delay compensation and other preferred 'voted by professionals for professionals' wish list items, but the more people on the band wagon, the more to chip in for the hay... the futher the destination I reckon.

Version 7 has been a little flakey in use... but on the recent updates I've noticed huge improvements. no changes in region sample pitch when applying a fade in.. or random crashing when trying to, god forbid, multi task and moving the mouse and hitting the space bar simultaneously... but you know, this version is effectively the official release that Apple have done on their own... or working with the old eMagic team under Apple management however they've set themselves up... so a bit of slack is fair.... or is it... releasing products not worthy for purchase intentionally cashing in on new/ old stuff up their sleeve to buy more time and blame incompatibilities with lagging 3rd party developers... yes.. well... you've had the code to work on for over a year!! java script:emoticon(':tongue:') Funny old game! Tiger looks to be taking things further with a LOT more powerful audio and video support though and this can only mean good things as far as Logic and Final Cut is concerned. Soundtrack Pro too... not to be sniffed at and is most definitely complimentary.

In summary, yeah... I'm down with Apple. Maybe a company that could actually mean 'Pro' if they put it in a product title!
Pwrbk G4 1Ghz | 1GB Ram | Logic Pro 7.1 | OS X 10.3.8 | Native Instruments Komplete 2 | Guitar Rig | Serato Scratch Live | 828MKII | Dynaudio BM5As

#8 mersisblue

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 04:52 PM

I got DP to do the High sample rate audio recording I was expecting out of logic
but logics instruments and audio at 96 or above was a let down .

I dont like that PDC is counter intuitive . I think a PDC button will need to be on the mixer

and Id like to see logics plugins become, Xkey protected of coure, a true AU for DP and such

What I would LOVE to see is logic become a rewire SLAVE so that wouldnt need to bounce and convert files from Logic to .......what ever Im using .

:biggrin:

wouldnt a rewire bridge work better for TDM systems too ?

#9 esteso

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 05:50 PM

After using Logic for a while I feel there's a LOT of room for improvement in workflow. I can't edit audio and MIDI in the same window. I can't edit audio in the Arrange with sample accuracy. I can't set Nudge to, say, 10 ticks. So I set it to one tick and it takes up 10 slots in my undo history. After a few of these operations my undo window becomes meaningless.

I also don't like the way Logic records each mute move in the Undo page. Totally uselees IMO.

Logic could be a great app and I still prefer it in it's present state but it pisses me off that I keep having to export to DP to complete certain functions, mostly related to audio. And why can't we recall different mixes? That's just ridiculous.

And we don't need bus "objects" Busses are assignments not destinations. I don't want to see 'em cluttering up my screen. Just add sends to auxes and be done with it.

The way it assigns MIDI ports is pretty silly to. If you take one virtual port away, you have to re-configure your environment because it automatically routes your midi to the next port. Because of the way Logic works it's very difficult to work witn Choirs/WB or even external controllers. In order to get midi routed correctly you need to unhook the Physical Sum and route directly from the midi port used by your controller. Fine as far as it goes, but what if you use two or three controllers?

Enough for now..... and I even like Logic in spite of all this. You should hear me talk about DP!

#10 thothprod

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 02:53 AM

I am Pro Logic all the way.......
It is like I am seeing a evolutionary process unfold before my eyes......
Everything ain't up to snuff yet But with every move forward I feel it becoming what I imagined it would....
Yea these long waits are kind of trying...But I'm still convinced that this waiting is so this App. really sizzles....
I have been on Logic since v4....and although Logic is Logic....There is a different Beast emerging with Apple....
But even with this period of transition...I am still managing to Produce some Slammin tracks......

#11 CyberMark

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 03:22 AM

Témoignage d'un "frenc[color="red"]hie" :

Options formidables de Logic 7 :
- Apple Loops
- Design "Applications Apple Pro"
- Documentation "en français" :biggrin:
- Intégration dans maximum Mac OS X

Bonne journée.
La vie est belle ! (PowerMac bi-pro 1,8Ghz - Logic Pro 7)

#12 prizzle

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 06:35 AM

apple have added a lot of sweet features but most of them are buggy as hell. we have been using ableton live a lot more recently 'cos of its simplicity and stability but it lacks a lot of features and is not as tight sounding as logic so we will be staying with logic for now.

....although ableton has'nt crashed on us once in a year which is infinitly better than "apple" logics record. hope apple sort out the bugs (and stop charging for updates like 7.1 that should of really been the initial 7.0 release) and add the few missing features like a "bounce in place" command in the arrange, people have been asking for features like this for ages but apple does'nt seem to listen to there users like emagic did.

peace,
p.

#13 Hyphad

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 09:42 AM

I think Logic needs a big clean the way Apple used to clean, simplfy and streamline workflow. To name a few (some already quoted) :
- mixer total recall with scene memory (for multiple mixes) ;
- something like consolidated window of DP ;
- MIDI learn of plugins controls (I do not understand why it is still missing…) ;
- Clean of the environment with less "hidden" connections and a more visual patching of complex things ;
- Ability to use multiple MIDI channels on a single AudioInstrument (without programming things in the environment) ;
- A far better and powerful audio files editor ;
- Way of applying AU effects on selected audio regions directly in arrange window ;
- A real Drum editor ! (not the stupid hyper editor) ;
- Predefined automation shapes (sinus, sawtooth, etc.) ;
- Multiple HyperDraw views (I think it does not exist yet) ;
- Time stretching in the arrange window ;
- Meta regions for managing in one click verse and chorus for example.
- MIDI chunks (kind of template of MIDI regions that we can export, reuse in other songs but not the way MIDI files are managed). Useful for drums part or gimmicks, licks, etc.
- The same way as MIDI, automation chunks (way of having predefined automation controls that we can reuse)
- Repeat bars with first time, second time etc !!! When we make songs, that is the way we work !
- And the last but not the least : SCRIPTING of automation, quantize, notes adjustments, controls.

Well I am not sure it is the good topic and I guess I do not really answer the initial question but I think Apple is able to do this if they forget the legacy of emagic who used to make good softwares but with poor workflow (I mean comparatively to today as Cubase SX, DP, Reason, Kontakt 2 have contributed to workflow innovation more than Logic this last years).

Well, wait and see Logic Pro 8 which will be the first real Apple contribution to the software… :detective:

#14 tobyond

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 11:15 AM

- MIDI chunks (kind of template of MIDI regions that we can export, reuse in other songs but not the way MIDI files are managed). Useful for drums part or gimmicks, licks, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Does the save as Apple Loop not work for you in this regard?

#15 Hyphad

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 06:02 PM

Does the save as Apple Loop not work for you in this regard?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Well, to be frank I don't know about this feature. How does it works ?
What I call "MIDI chunks", is something like audio regions, with a MIDI window where we can organize and classify MIDI data grouped in regions. This way we can manage for example a MIDI groove with variations, breaks, etc. Today I must use tracks with no output to organize this kind of material, but as you can image, it is very limited ! But perhaps there is a better way to do this. :dknow:

#16 Peter

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 06:05 PM

Please keep the thread on topic. If you have a question on how logic works or looking for information a a specific task, please post in the Logic Pro | Express forum.

thanks

Peter

Mixing - Logic Pro X | OS X 10.8.4 | 3.4GHZ Quad Core Hackintosh | 16GB Ram |

Studio Tracking - Logic Pro 9.1.8 | OS X 10.6.8 | 2GHZ Quad Mac Pro | 6GB Ram | Apogee Symphony PCI-e | Apogee AD16X | Apogee Mini DAC | Logic Control & Extender and Mackie Control C4 and a boat load of other cool stuff i use in my studio Static Productions


#17 gdoubleyou

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 08:48 PM

This isn't bad at all, you could have been a Steinberg customer.

I was a longtime Cubase user in OS9, and I lived through their upgrade fiascos.

Not having any confidence in Steinberg to deliver in a timely manner, I purchased the big Box, and DP3, knowing that the transition to OSX was on the horizon.

The transition from Logic5 OS9 to Logic5 OSX was painless, Steinberg choose to bring a new app to a new OS. SX1 was buggy and useless. ( all I wanted was to continue the work I started in Cubase5) So I put SX aside and started to learn Logic and DP.

Sx2 was released and it had higher minimum requirements, it choked my G4/400, and even my new 1GHz Powerbook. To transfer my Cubase5 sessions I moved my license to my PC (SX ran fine on my PC).

Sold my PC and SX license to a buddy and haven't looked back. If SX was my only DAW my business would have been shut down.

Logic ran fine on my ancient G4/400, and even better on my Powerbook.

The SX owners just recently received the app they were promised when SX1 was released, that app was SX3.

Logic has been mostly trouble free for me, After my SX experience, Logic is a dream come true.

I do feel that Apple is responsive, eMagic responded quicker. Bugs are minor. I haven't experienced any show stoppers yet. I'm running Express, and it's less complex than Logic Pro.

The only issues that irratated me were loosing ESX editor that included in Logic Express6, and loosing the use of the ES2, whith the Express7 upgrade.

I still have Express6 on HD, for ESX editing. I purchased the East/West Vapor Kompackt instrument to hold down the Pad role.




:cool:

#18 fractured

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 07:42 AM

Well, I switched to Mac with Logic 6 and haven't looked back. I was rather upset with the upgrade charges as I had paid for all but 2 of the available plug-ins under Logic 5 and they wanted to charge the same price for me to move up as anyone who had paid for none of them, but I got past that. I love the workflow in Logic and feel it is far superior to DP and Pro Tools. I am glad Apple finally made a right click as I had in my PC days. Logic was a dream on my PC and it is now as good on my Mac. I love nodes, too. I have a dual G4, a PowerBook and a dual G5 to split the tasks. I just wish they could each run a DSP card or two.

I wish Apple would integrate SoundDiver into Logic so I could automate parameters on my synths from the arrange window. SD would manage the patches and handle the parameter equivalences while Logic automates. I could see Waveburner Pro becoming a little more like Peak and opening a waveform for a quick edit instead of that poop Logic has. Nudging an object in the arrange window would be nice, too.

Anyway, Logic was a fine app under Emagic and Apple has the opportunity to make it great. Perhaps they will see their way clear to take Logic to 7.2, 7.3 etc, before taking more of my hard earned money in a big way. I am happy to pay for upgrades, but Logic 5 to Logic 7.1 was one jump, not four (Logic 5, Logic 6, Logic 6 pro, Logic 7, Logic 7.1).

#19 Peter

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 10:53 AM

Anyway, Logic was a fine app under Emagic and Apple has the opportunity to make it great. Perhaps they will see their way clear to take Logic to 7.2, 7.3 etc, before taking more of my hard earned money in a big way. I am happy to pay for upgrades, but Logic 5 to Logic 7.1 was one jump, not four (Logic 5, Logic 6, Logic 6 pro, Logic 7, Logic 7.1).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Come on, you really feel logic 7.1 was a "paid upgrade"..... 20bucks ? It was a way to deliver/ship the logic users the version that should have come at 7.0.... 7.1 can not be considered a "new" version.

Logic 5, Logic 6 (under emagic) , Logic 6 pro, Logic pro 7 (under apple)
next paid update you will see Logic pro 8 (upgrade cost will most likely be 199.00 - 299.00 )

Peter

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#20 rlsproductions

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 01:39 PM

I've been using Logic since v.4, and going from 6 to 7 was a shock - especially since you had no choice but to buy a Mac. It seems the Apple team didn't listen to the emagic team much, as far as workflow goes, since Mac seem to be selling more gimmicks (Apple Loops are useless tools to a real musician, compared to EXS24) rather than useful applications. For such a DAW workhorse Logic has awful editing, comparded to Pro Tools, which can be bought for less $! Not to mention all the problems with the nudging and hyperdraw which have long plagued Logic, and pre-plug-ins (that used to be an option in previous versions, but for some reason has disappeared from the Audio Window). Most frustrating I find are Audio Units - another waste of time and money - now we needs wrappers to use our old VST or RTAS plug-ins, but even then Logic is not fully compatable with 3rd party plug-ins! All in all I have never spent soo much $$ on Logic related issues - I blame Apple's greed, and failure to conform! They better sell Logic 8 for dirt cheap or I am going back to Pro Tools!

Automation and panning also suck big time compared to other DAWs!




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